THE LAST DANCE introduces Knull but why didn’t Donny Cates and Ryan Stegman know?
The new Venom The Last Dance movie trailer debuted this past weekend surprising fans with a reveal that Knull would be featured, most likely, as the movie’s primary villain. It was a shock to the character’s original creators Donny Cates and Ryan Stegman, as Knull, the God of all symbiotes, has been used in Marvel adaptations quite a bit as of late.
Here is the original trailer for the movie, which will be released on October 25th to see what we’re talking about.
When the news hit the media the two co-creators replied playfully on X (formerly known as twitter) and both claimed that neither had any idea. The uncertainty about it led to a sudden outpouring of reports by major entertainment outlets who were especially concerned given the unsteady history of major comics companies fairly compensating their creators. Especially on works that gross millions of dollars through adaptions across movies, games, and merchandising.
When the news first broke out artist Ryan Stegman made a quick statement:
“Yes, I did co-create knull. No, I didn’t know until today that he was gonna be in Venom: The Last Dance. Yes, I do expect to finally be able to afford that lazy river moat around my house.”
Followed by then of course Donny cates. Who shared this funny tweet in the styles of Venom’s lettering…
lol pic.twitter.com/VLKtdhmG9N
— DONNY CATES (@Doncates) September 12, 2024
Though later on, Cates clarified:
“I’ve been talking with Sony and I read a script for Venom: The Last Dance, and I’ll say this; it is so much bigger, and so much more ambitious than you can imagine. And, um….KNULL. Holy s***. That’s how you treat a king. Happy Birthday to me.”
The truth is Venom (2018) has slowly been adapted across Marvel’s brand for a while…
The original intro to Knull in Marvel comics re-contextualized the entire longstanding symbiote universe. Revealed to be the symbiotes’ God and creator, Knull was apparently a dark being who predated existence in a time before the celestials brought forth life. He wants to envelop the universe in darkness like almost all cool endgame apocalyptic villains do. And though it seems like a surprise to feature Knull in a Marvel movie adaption – he’s actually been hinted at existing in both Marvel’s extended plans the past few years!
Starting with the MCU through his unique weapon which we’ve already seen: The Necrosword.
Yes, the weapon known as All-Black, wielded by Gorr The God Butcher in Jason Aaron’s run on Thor, was later adapted into the MCU in Thor: Love and Thunder. Many of the creatures Gorr spawns in that movie via this weapon later revealed to be the first of all symbiotes, are black and fluidlike in nature – hinting signs of the blade’s true master, along with the sword’s secret properties it holds.
The sword’s use and its history are left semi-ambiguous on purpose in the movie for the sake of having room of retconning or reconnecting it the story at large, whether it be Sony’s or the MCU’s as needed. The biggest takeaway is that the weapon would always inevitably lead to Knull.
That said this was NOT THE ONLY ADAPTION OF THE 2018 RUN ON VENOM of recent year…
As reviewed just last year, Spider-Man 2 the video game also used quite a lot of material from the storyline of the symbiotes invasion of Earth from The King in Black – part of Cates’ and Stegman’s venom run. Now it’s difficult to prove that this was outright a borrowed comic idea given “alien invasion” falls under generic superhero movie plot quite often in comcis, but given Marvel’s longstanding history of what qualifies as ownership when working with them, it’s difficult to disprove otherwise? Given the comic’s art designs seemed a little too similar which you can see below. The flying Venom for starters, but also, the design of the symbiotes invasion and their distinct spiral heads featured in the game – looking near identical to Stegman’s own creation.
But how just does this compensation work or how ahead of time should creatives should be given notice? All of that remains unseen and I’m not a lawyer, just a reporter seeing facts. I can say though, that fans seem rather defensive in reassuring Cates and Stegman get paid for this one – as yeah, their work contributed a lot the past few years.
It should be noted probably the biggest reason I am even writing this is that as reported by Bleeding Cool, Donny Cates suffered from a terrible car accident just a bit over a year ago. The results of which were rather significant brain damage and retrograde amnesia for a time. The gist of the report highlighted that Cate’s, while sitting in the mid passenger seat, was rear ended and had his laptop go through more or less part of his skull.
Cates has since been in recovery rehabilitating back to health as he slowly and quietly, was pulled off several Marvel titles during this time. There are longstanding rumors he’d had many big works along the way. Including some rumors that I had also heard, that he originally had a role as part of the upcoming Absolute DC/All-In DC launch.
It should be noted that Donny Cates was one of Marvel’s hottest and fastest rising stars just before all of this happened. And from what I gathered behind the scenes, Cates is a bit of an eccentric of sorts (very rockstar and Gerard Way-like vibes in my personal opinion) though someone more than suited at the task whose phenomenal talents were in part due to spent years of pitching and honing in on craft to earn a well-deserved seat at the table.
We’ve seen this time and time again. Creators who needed crowdfunding just to pay medical bills – from Peter David, to Brett Lewis. It’s why organizations like The Hero Initiative exist. It’s why artists need to crowdfund from their own audience just to survive despite making these billion dollar IPs based on borrowed toys from the company chest. Cates thankfully, seems like he’s alright and made great strides at recovery. He’s also making a confirmed appearance at New York Comic Con 2024. Support him if you’re a fan or if you just want to support a creator doing a comeback tour at full throttle.
The complicated nature of Work-for-Hire
As somebody who not only reports on comics but also has hired people to help make his own and is a part of this indie circuit, I do have to stress the slight complexity that comes with work for hire contracts. Some of its pros, but also, its cons – from the perspective of all sides.
On the positive side, this is a tough economy and even tougher job market, so right now a guaranteed page rate and low commitment beyond finishing the work does have its advantages. You do a job. You get paid for it. The end. It’s what many artists right now tend to do as a contract for hire, not just indie work, but also the bigger companies including the big two. It’s not great in the sense that there’s very little control of how the money is made but it’s a direct means to an end.
On the negative side, that kind of strategy can hurt on the backend. Big companies make multimillion dollar profits off others works and ideas and don’t have to compensate a creator for their work as against its contracts for hire. Many creators are just happy to essentially be playing with the toys in that company’s play box, and in turn, compensation can remain low to keep profitability high – thus is the business of weaving ideas into entertainment.
As someone who’s covered multiple sectors – this is in large an entertainment industry issue on the whole, not exclusive to just comics. It is how business has been heavily done for quite some time. Though it does come with some benefit.
In turn, working at the company with that level of legacy status is meant to propel the creator’s own fame forward – and with this fandom people can try and do other things. This is very much how you get your own Todd McFarlane’s or Robert Kirkman’s of the world. Where opportunity meets luck meets business savy – though often it’s a lot of struggle with trial and error.
I end this piece by admitting, it’s really hard right now for creatives due to multiple reasons. These unprecedented times, along with most of entertainment media and not just comics’, are facing many uncertainties – including the rise in AI and an oversaturated market looking to scale. Competition for attention is worse than ever before and social media has gone from platform meant to build an audience – to platform meant to take its user’s attentions away by keeping them infinitely scrolling.
I’ve talked about in the past how the world is changing – as are comics. And I think so many people want to keep comics alive but don’t know how. Personally, I’d say by start with opening your phone and looking at your hourly usage. See what you’re spending time on versus what it is that you’re neglecting to spend time on that you’re passionate about, or like myself, are trying to change about the world.
Because if you really love something – whether it be a person or a medium of sorts – it does deserve spending some of your precious time on. There’s only so much of that in a lifetime.
